The free website to help new writers to develop, and to help talented writers get noticed and published Books
   
The 'rules' of style << Return To Main Site

 Welcome to the YouWriteOn Forum

**2012 News Random House & Orion Editors to continue free reviews of YouWriteOn Top Ten Writers each month  - publishers of many of the world's bestselling authors 

YouWriteOn Authors' Hall of Fame Congratulations to our many authors achieving sales and signings successes through  Waterstones, WHSmith and others! View Hall of Fame
     

YouWriteOn Message Board > Literary Forums > Professional Writing Tips and Techniques - New Help Search Recent Posts
The 'rules' of style
Page 1 2 3 Last : 4 > Start New Topic Reply To Topic
acwhitehouse
 27 Nov 2007, 19:26 #24268 Reply To Post
A few different American style guides or lists of rules have been quoted in the various threads: guides by Stephen King, by Elmore Leonard, by Strunk & White, etc, etc. All seem to concur in their hatred of the adverb and, to a lesser extent, the adjective.

My argument is that the bare, stripped-back prose style they aim to teach is not 'Style', it is 'a style' - there are others. Stripped-back-to-the-bare-essentials prose doesn't work in all genres, or for all audiences; it is simply fashionable at the moment.

What do you think?
This post was last edited by acwhitehouse, 27 Nov 2007, 19:26
WorkingOnABook
Timber Beast
 27 Nov 2007, 19:32 #24271 Reply To Post
I will first start with an adverb in my "draft zero." Then I will search for a stronger verb to take its place. "Knocked loudly" becomes "rapped." The result is shorter. If I can't find a stronger verb, I will see if it reads with the same meaning without the adverb. Over the course of a novel such pruning pays off in tighter prose.
This post was last edited by Timber Beast, 27 Nov 2007, 19:34
Best,
Norm
Forestry combines art and science, grapples with the ecological riddles of our time, but it's also a job. That's what I write about.

Timberati
To everything blog, blog, blog
Dangermouse
 27 Nov 2007, 19:54 #24276 Reply To Post
Strunk & White have been around for a wee while. Must be a long lasting fashion.

I used to think the same, that stripped down prose removes the character's voice and personality. After a few months spent in a vigorous critiquing group, I've changed my mind.

Stripping down prose is a good exercise - even if you don't plan to write that way - because it teaches control. Control and subtlety in fiction are rare.

As a case in point, I'm reading a fantastic book at the moment written by a ex-journalist, who admits she's used to writing highly-controlled 5,000 word artciles. The result? I can see how every word is selected. It's not just the first thing that pops into her head.

AllieO
 27 Nov 2007, 21:15 #24299 Reply To Post
Well, I think that Sol Stein (Solutions for Writers) puts it very well. He's not against adverbs where they are essential. That example above of 'rapped' for 'knocked loudly' is a good one, I think. But you have to judge whether leaving out the adverb means saying exactly what you want to say. Sometimes 'said' is just not enough on its own. He is particularly hard on two adverbs together, and suggests finding the one it is better to keep.
leighvtwersky
 27 Nov 2007, 21:58 #24310 Reply To Post
i think it's something to consider as long as one doesn't become a slave to a 'rule'. there are times when a stronger, more graphic verb will work better than a mundane verb and adverb.

but equally (or is that adverb okay cos it's not qualifying a verb??) the rhythmic flow of a sentence or paragraph could be ruined by removing the syllables supplied by that adverb.:omg:

doesn't someone subvocalizing as they read need a rhythmically satisfying cadence?:omg::omg::omg:

(if anyone understands what i'm on about please let me know)
leighvtwersky
 27 Nov 2007, 22:00 #24312 Reply To Post
i mean please explain it to me
KRobb
 27 Nov 2007, 22:09 #24318 Reply To Post
Thanks Leigh for telling me that what I do when I hear it in my head is 'subvocalising' (that is what you meant isn't it? I always thought I was a bit mad to do it and never thought I made it clear when I've tried to talk about it in my reviews).

Anyway, I do read like that and rhythmically pleasing definitely has it's merits, while rhythmically displeasing grates on my nerves. However, a plain, sparse style can be very tense...

So, I guess you cut your cloth to suit your clothes, to destroy a saying. There are no fixed rules, just choose your style to suit the emotion you're hoping the reader will experience.

K
NickP
 27 Nov 2007, 22:23 #24323 Reply To Post
Hmmm

If I were you, I'd listen to the advice given. If you think your copious adverbs and adjectives decorate your prose, it might just be that you are writing for yourself not others.

Course, you could know better than King, Strunk etc etc. Why wouldn't you? You might even be a YWO bestseller.
Mind you they are bestsellers too. In the more accepted sense of having SOLD a lot of books.

Have you?
"...the likes of NickP can rant on if they like"
leighvtwersky
 27 Nov 2007, 22:37 #24325 Reply To Post
copious? no one's said anything about copious yet. i just think that each case needs to be judged on its own merit rather than just following a blanket ban on adverbs.

as i said earlier sometimes it works better to cut the adverb. other times, perhaps for example, a stronger but less common verb, might not get the effect you want in that particular case.

truly, madly, deeply. hmmm.
acwhitehouse
 28 Nov 2007, 13:49 #24351 Reply To Post
Quote: Dangermouse, Tuesday, 27 Nov 2007 19:54
Strunk & White have been around for a wee while. Must be a long lasting fashion.




I think the first Strunk and White came out in 1959; longer ago than I thought, but not a very long time in literary terms.

It's a great book - I have a much-thumbed copy myself. I just don't believe that it's the be-all and end-all of good writing.

P.S. Call me a snob if you like, but I CANNOT take literary advice from Stephen King! No matter how many millions of books he's sold. I grew out of his writing aged about 14. I picked one up just now to check. Such a 'knowing' tone - I don't know how else to describe it - it really grates.
This post was last edited by acwhitehouse, 28 Nov 2007, 13:55
WorkingOnABook
Page 1 2 3 Last : 4 > Add To My Topic Watch List Start New Topic Reply To Topic
Server Time: 24 May 2012, 15:46

Powered by Zarr Forums

5 Database Read(s) - 0.266 seconds

 

Adverts provided by Google and not endorsed by YouWriteOn.com.