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Joe 90
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Watching the excellent series, 'frozen Planet' last night, I was impressed, as always, by the fabulous photography and incredible stories of survival. But what sticks in mind was the 'stalagtite' of ice that drops from the underside of the sea ice to the floor. As it hits the sea bottom, it kills all within its footprint, then the ice loosens and the dead creatures float up to pepper the ice ceiling. It prompted the question: what would happen if water conformed with the usual rules of expansion and contraction; namely the cooler a liquid becomes, the denser it becomes until it solidifies and its dense-packed structure makes it heavier than the surrounding liquid phase? Obviously, then, it sinks. This rule applies to most natural materials. Not so water. At 4 deg C it is at its densest, thereafter it becomes less dense so that when it freezes, it floats to the surface. Hence ice floats in lemonade. If this was not the case, I surmise the following scenario: Each winter, the pack ice that forms around Arctic and Anartctic regions would fall to the sea bottom, allowing fresh ice to form. As the winter progressed, an accumulation of ice would form, then in the subsequent summer it would remain, eroded somewhat by water temperatures, but nevertheless there for the following winter to add more layers. In a short time, the polar regions would expand as the seas froze from the bottom up. The fecund waters of these regions would become sterile of life, and each year the region of solid ice would expand southwards. The resulting increase in ice coverage would cause the albedo of the earth to rise significantly thus retaining less sun energy and the advance of the ice would continue southwards until it encountered sea temperatures sufficiently warm to check it. This might leave a small 'tropical' region with fluid water, but then again, with thermal reflection maybe not. I suggest in a short time the earth would be an ice-locked planet with few interesting features except for massive canyons where shrinkage would cause cracks to form. Life would be difficult, if not impossible, limited only where undersea volcanic activity kept the ice at bay. As it is, however, water exhibits this peculiar expansion feature, and also in its solid phase is a poor conductor of heat. Hence the snow that should spell catastrophe for land-based polar creatures becomes their means of survival as they nestle in holes to bring up their young. Lucky old us, eh? Still, it's a big universe, anything can happen... (Can't find an ironical emoticon  will this do?)
my website
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AntCity
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Quote: Joe 90, Thursday, 24 Nov 2011 10:20...ice floats in lemonade. And in JD and Coke.
This post was last edited by AntCity, 24 Nov 2011, 11:16
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Joe 90
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Quote: AntCity, Thursday, 24 Nov 2011 11:15Quote: Joe 90, Thursday, 24 Nov 2011 10:20...ice floats in lemonade. And in JD and Coke. Missed the point there entirely, old chap
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rosefitzrobert
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Quote: Joe 90, Thursday, 24 Nov 2011 11:58Quote: AntCity, Thursday, 24 Nov 2011 11:15Quote: Joe 90, Thursday, 24 Nov 2011 10:20...ice floats in lemonade. And in JD and Coke. Missed the point there entirely, old chap I didn't. So, could a substance that did get denser when frozen, be remedially applied to cool the polar regions, where the largest extent of ice free seas in history is now occurring?
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AntCity
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Quote: Joe 90, Thursday, 24 Nov 2011 11:58Quote: AntCity, Thursday, 24 Nov 2011 11:15Quote: Joe 90, Thursday, 24 Nov 2011 10:20...ice floats in lemonade. And in JD and Coke. Missed the point there entirely, old chap OK, I've had another look and I think I've got the point now. What you are saying is that if something did something different to what it does now, the things that are affected by what it does now would be affected in a different way and the world would be a different place.
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AntCity
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Quote: rosefitzrobert, Thursday, 24 Nov 2011 13:19Quote: Joe 90, Thursday, 24 Nov 2011 11:58Quote: AntCity, Thursday, 24 Nov 2011 11:15Quote: Joe 90, Thursday, 24 Nov 2011 10:20...ice floats in lemonade. And in JD and Coke. Missed the point there entirely, old chap I didn't. So, could a substance that did get denser when frozen, be remedially applied to cool the polar regions, where the largest extent of ice free seas in history is now occurring? That might work. Alternatively, you could change the obliquity of the Earth by towing the Moon further away using some old space shuttles. Of course, I can't predict which way the planet would fall. Ice age or heat wave?
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PERRY
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And if someone set out to make the atmosphere less resistant to microwaves so that - oh I don't know - mobile phones might have a greater range, the the laws of physics as we perceive them now would be changed due to STP having been altered?
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sarsen
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Yes, the stalactite sequence was astonishing - and beautiful, and macabre. I need the physics of the universe to stay unchanged - We had solar photo-voltaics fitted to the roof the other day. It is a watery winter sun just now, but there is 1.2kw feeding in from the roof. The sun is earning me money faster than the sales of 'Tom Fleck'.
This post was last edited by sarsen, 26 Nov 2011, 13:14
blog: http://1513fusion.wordpress.com/
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LTMS1479CSP
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Quote: sarsen, Saturday, 26 Nov 2011 13:12Yes, the stalactite sequence was astonishing - and beautiful, and macabre. I need the physics of the universe to stay unchanged - We had solar photo-voltaics fitted to the roof the other day. It is a watery winter sun just now, but there is 1.2kw feeding in from the roof. The sun is earning me money faster than the sales of 'Tom Fleck'. Money isn't everything, Harry. Tom Fleck is a lovely read and even though he did need a living, like we all do, I think his world was more romantic in so many more ways than it is today. I wonder what kind of world we'd have now if we hadn't got the written word.
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rosefitzrobert
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Quote: sarsen, Saturday, 26 Nov 2011 13:12Yes, the stalactite sequence was astonishing - and beautiful, and macabre. I need the physics of the universe to stay unchanged - We had solar photo-voltaics fitted to the roof the other day. It is a watery winter sun just now, but there is 1.2kw feeding in from the roof. The sun is earning me money faster than the sales of 'Tom Fleck'. congrats! brilliant!
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