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Sammy
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...they always drive slowly past schools. What offends you? The only book I ever stuggled to finish was American Pyscho. I walked out of 'The Hulk' (Ang Lee). Chick-lit offends me. TOWIE offends me. Mums who drive huge children-carriers but have no concept of ONE parking space offend me. But let's drag it back to popular - or unpopular culture. Has anything you have seen or read ever truly offended you? Or, what are your favourite 'offensive' jokes, series, films, whatever? What made me think of this was watching one of my other favourite 'offensive' things: South Park's 'Human Centipad.' 'It does e-mail and web browsing and it shits in Kyle's mouth'Fantastic. x
'Stay away from your potential. It's like your bank balance. There's never as much of it as you think.'
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Lin Lee Liu
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Quote: Sammy, Sunday, 6 Nov 2011 23:03...they always drive slowly past schools. What offends you? The only book I ever stuggled to finish was American Pyscho. I walked out of 'The Hulk' (Ang Lee). Chick-lit offends me. TOWIE offends me. Mums who drive huge children-carriers but have no concept of ONE parking space offend me. But let's drag it back to popular - or unpopular culture. Has anything you have seen or read ever truly offended you? Or, what are your favourite 'offensive' jokes, series, films, whatever? What made me think of this was watching one of my other favourite 'offensive' things: South Park's 'Human Centipad.' 'It does e-mail and web browsing and it shits in Kyle's mouth'Fantastic. x Interesting question, that. I'd never really thought too hard about what offends me. It's more, I know it when I see it, kind of thing. Chick lit doesn't offend me. It is what it is. It's sad that there are real women around who seem exactly like they've walked out of a chicklit novel, but the chicklit I have read parodies these lifestyles so I don't take it seriously enough to be offended. But I haven't read much of the genre. I grew out of it, I guess. Women's fiction on the other hand... That this category exists in some bookshops offends me. I don't like that we live in such a segregated society that books about family matters are marketed solely at women, as if men are not family members too. It offends me when a book written by a woman about a woman is labelled women's fiction, regardless of its plot, or when it's given a pastel cover with cake on it of the kind that a typical man has been conditioned to avoid, even though he might get something out of it had it been marketed in a less gender sterotypical way. Actually I could go on and on about this (and have done elsewhere) but you get the idea. You can probably also assume the reason why I'm saddened at the Smurfs comeback. I'm also getting a little weary of the fictional abuse of interesting young women in a way that's purely for entertainment. I think our society is obsessed with it. It's no single piece of literature that causes this imbalance but the total corpus. I therefore don't enjoy reading fictional accounts of horrible things happening to young people, and I could add to that list a new True Australian Crime series which presents horrific tales of abuse in Whodunnit style, in which the audience is expected to guess who the perpetrator was. These are retellings of recent crimes, in which families of the mutilated and deceased are still alive. That offends me. South Park doesn't offend me, but I think I only get about half the jokes. A funny thing happens when something is consciously offensive. It ends up not being offensive at all.
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PERRY
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Vampire-worship and its entertainment tentacle. Women who push an occupied pram out in front of them when crossing the road at unsanctioned times/junctions (and men who do so, if anyone has spotted such a creature). Lollipop people (crossing guards) who seem to believe the big pole is a magic wand which will stop traffic instantly. Books on vampire cults who race their prams across busy roads waving lollipop signs, singing Kylie Minogue songs to Eva Cassidy CDs.
This post was last edited by PERRY, 07 Nov 2011, 08:32
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Sammy
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Quote: PERRY, Monday, 7 Nov 2011 08:31Books on vampire cults who race their prams across busy roads waving lollipop signs, singing Kylie Minogue songs to Eva Cassidy CDs. Have you been reading my latest manuscript?
'Stay away from your potential. It's like your bank balance. There's never as much of it as you think.'
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karen milner
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I guess, LLL, it can be a thin line between highlighting social issues and sensationalising them for the purposes of entertainment. Sometimes though, I think it's the job of the author/writer to offend. Fiction merely mimics real life and there are offensive/awful/disgusting things happening to man and beast every day, in every country.
A Sunday at the pool in Kigali is a brilliant example of fiction at its best (IMO). It's not an easy read as it brings home the horror of genocide in Rwanda. And for those of us who live in relative safety, and watch the ravishes of war from behind our TV screens, it's a wake-up call. As a race, we have a long, long way to go in the humanitarian stakes.
ps I agree about the Women's fiction genre. It should be outlawed, IMHO.
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Sammy
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I think Lin's right: most things that set out to shock fail precisely because they try too hard. However, I always enjoy it when people 'push the envelope' and get it right. Most of Chris Morris's comedy is a case in point. I find it interesting the things that different people take offence to. The stuff that pushes buttons. For some it seems to be swearing and references to religion (although I have to say organised religion is something that deeply offends me). Others seem to get upset about anything relating to children (so for God's sake don't mention incest). Films and books which depict women being killed in horrific ways don't so much offend me as bore me with their tedious predictability. Although, as I said, when I first read American Pyscho I found it quite hard to stomach. Was this the first 'torture porn' book? Anyway, I posed the question because I was kinda curious . . . but probably more because I'd consumed two bottles of wine over the course of Sunday afternoon and evening. At a friend's Birthday party, not me sat on a park bench on my own. Honest. x
'Stay away from your potential. It's like your bank balance. There's never as much of it as you think.'
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Lin Lee Liu
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Quote: karen milner, Monday, 7 Nov 2011 09:09I guess, LLL, it can be a thin line between highlighting social issues and sensationalising them for the purposes of entertainment. Sometimes though, I think it's the job of the author/writer to offend. Fiction merely mimics real life and there are offensive/awful/disgusting things happening to man and beast every day, in every country. A Sunday at the pool in Kigali is a brilliant example of fiction at its best (IMO). It's not an easy read as it brings home the horror of genocide in Rwanda. And for those of us who live in relative safety, and watch the ravishes of war from behind our TV screens, it's a wake-up call. As a race, we have a long, long way to go in the humanitarian stakes. ps I agree about the Women's fiction genre. It should be outlawed, IMHO. Yes, it is a thin line, and where is it, exactly? Sometimes we don't even know ourselves until an artist goes too far, and then we suddenly realise what our threshold is. Here in Australia our boundaries were put to the test four years ago when a prominent photographer visited schools, handpicked his subjects, then took photos of naked girls on the cusp of adolescence for his exhibition. Until he did this, our society had never put it into words: that it's okay to take photos of topless women, and okay to take photos of naked children, but there is an unwritten rule that we leave girls alone at that time of their lives. The artist in question argued that his job was to push the boundaries, and in doing so he opened a national discussion about child protection, the rights of parents to allow their kids to be photographed and all sorts. Mary Gaitskill's New Yorker short story earlier this year made what I thought was an excellent job of getting inside the head of a rapist. The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, however, I'm conflicted about.
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Sammy
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Quote: Lin Lee Liu, Monday, 7 Nov 2011 09:26Quote: karen milner, Monday, 7 Nov 2011 09:09 The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, however, I'm conflicted about. Do you think that's because it's written by a man? I'm not trying to say that a man can't tackle such issues, but perhaps there's always the danger that the writer seems to be relishing the very thing he is supposed to be condemning? x
'Stay away from your potential. It's like your bank balance. There's never as much of it as you think.'
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karen milner
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Quote: Lin Lee Liu, Monday, 7 Nov 2011 09:26Quote: karen milner, Monday, 7 Nov 2011 09:09I guess, LLL, it can be a thin line between highlighting social issues and sensationalising them for the purposes of entertainment. Sometimes though, I think it's the job of the author/writer to offend. Fiction merely mimics real life and there are offensive/awful/disgusting things happening to man and beast every day, in every country. A Sunday at the pool in Kigali is a brilliant example of fiction at its best (IMO). It's not an easy read as it brings home the horror of genocide in Rwanda. And for those of us who live in relative safety, and watch the ravishes of war from behind our TV screens, it's a wake-up call. As a race, we have a long, long way to go in the humanitarian stakes. ps I agree about the Women's fiction genre. It should be outlawed, IMHO. Yes, it is a thin line, and where is it, exactly? Sometimes we don't even know ourselves until an artist goes too far, and then we suddenly realise what our threshold is. Here in Australia our boundaries were put to the test four years ago when a prominent photographer visited schools, handpicked his subjects, then took photos of naked girls on the cusp of adolescence for his exhibition. Until he did this, our society had never put it into words: that it's okay to take photos of topless women, and okay to take photos of naked children, but there is an unwritten rule that we leave girls alone at that time of their lives. The artist in question argued that his job was to push the boundaries, and in doing so he opened a national discussion about child protection, the rights of parents to allow their kids to be photographed and all sorts. Mary Gaitskill's New Yorker short story earlier this year made what I thought was an excellent job of getting inside the head of a rapist. The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, however, I'm conflicted about. I'm conflicted about the writing. Larsson does so many head hops and info dumps that I'm sure he'd get a pounding on here. But, his characterisation of Lisbeth Salander is masterful and his story compelling. The rape scene I thought was handled brilliantly. Larsson actually managed to shock me; it wasn't so much the level of brutality used, it was the unexpectedness of it. The character didn't anticipate it and therefore neither did I as a reader. The scene, along with that of Salander's revenge tattoo, will stay with me for a very long time. I'd be interested to read Mary Gaitskill's New Yorker short story, I'll try and get hold of a copy. And Sammy, you can manage legible posts after two bottles of wine! You get the multitasking prize of the week.
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PERRY
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Considering we're all pretty much alone inside our heads, is there a line anywhere - or is it the nanny superego which berates us when it gauges we should really be offended lest other people talk about us? In the same way, is there really organised religion - or just a big bluff to chuck criticism at when it is we who have the problem? Oh shit - fucking psychological social sciences again! Forget I asked.
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