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Points of view.
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KatyXY
 31 Dec 2009, 17:07 #79289 Reply To Post
How does everyone think about the single point of view, or at most, a different point of view can only be used in different chapters? This is not so in most Creative Writing Courses, University or Colleges. The single point of view is applicable only to first person narrative ,even then the writer has the right to introduce new ideas of writing. As T.S Eliot insisted the contemporary writer stands upon a tradition of literature but uses it in a novel way. Apart from second person narrative there is also limited third person, where the point of view is limited to two or maybe three main characters within a scene or chapter etc. The third person omniscience narrator can extend to any number of points of view, including ‘the crowd’ or ‘community’ point of view (focalization) within one chapter or even scene. So to insist on one point of view per chapter or scene and to detract from scores for doing so, is to impose one’s own preferences. There is no point of reference for such a rule of only one point of view for any scene or chapter.
I am writing this as so many stories or plots could be enriched with the use of several points of view if the writer so wishes. I hope that others will agree with this.
Examples of several points of view within a scene or chapter can be found in works by Jane Austen, Val McDermid, Dean Koontz, Robin Cook, and a brand new one out at present ‘Dracula the Undead’ to name a few.


HAPPY NEW YEAR.
This post was last edited by KatyXY, 31 Dec 2009, 17:18
'But words are things, and a small drop of
ink,
Falling like dew, upon a thought, produces
That which makes thousands, perhaps millions think.

Byron
Carole
 31 Dec 2009, 17:26 #79291 Reply To Post
I'll probably get hammered for this, but I think you should use any point of view you damn well like!

Just make sure it reads reasonably well, and there ya go!

Voice of the deluded amateur

Happy New Year (hic) splat!



NB: I don't even know what half those points of view are.

Voice of ignorance
This post was last edited by Carole, 31 Dec 2009, 17:36
*
antonygloster
 31 Dec 2009, 18:11 #79293 Reply To Post
Quote: Carole, Thursday, 31 Dec 2009 17:26
I'll probably get hammered for this, but I think you should use any point of view you damn well like!

Just make sure it reads reasonably well, and there ya go!


Hear! Hear! Well that's my pov anyway.
AG
AG
dancingsue
 01 Jan 2010, 12:33 #79312 Reply To Post
Quote: Carole, Thursday, 31 Dec 2009 17:26

Just make sure it reads reasonably well, and there ya go!



I think that's the key. If it seems sudden or inappropriate, it probably is. Otherwise, go for it!
the long and the short of it

Triclops: a collection of forty short stories by Avery Mathers, Susan Howe and Lee Williams.
KatyXY
 01 Jan 2010, 14:20 #79319 Reply To Post
Quote: dancingsue, Friday, 1 Jan 2010 12:33
Quote: Carole, Thursday, 31 Dec 2009 17:26

Just make sure it reads reasonably well, and there ya go!



I think that's the key. If it seems sudden or inappropriate, it probably is. Otherwise, go for it!


Yes I agree. Different points of view if clearly defined within a scene or chapter do make for a richer read, adding depth and interest as well as rounding out the characters. Not only does the reader gain knowledge of their physical make up and reactions, but also their personality and inner thoughts which can have a direct impact on the story even driving it further forward. But of course it depends on the story and what the writer wants.

The reader is in on the act so to say and knows more than the other character at one point or another which makes for a stronger tension and the interaction of the reader.

Maybe this was Jane Austen's strength and contemporary writers of of some of the best sellers, that she drew the reader into the scenes, into the minds of more than one character.
Happy New's Day.
'But words are things, and a small drop of
ink,
Falling like dew, upon a thought, produces
That which makes thousands, perhaps millions think.

Byron
Lestat
 01 Jan 2010, 16:15 #79324 Reply To Post
I suppose it wouldn’t be a discussion if everyone agreed, so here are my thoughts.

I think dipping in and out of lots of heads diminishes the work – especially within a particular scene. I agree that most stories will need more than one POV character, but two or more in one scene is ridiculous and unnecessary.

Every time you tell the reader how a character is feeling, you diminish the work (agreed it has to be done sometimes, but less is more), especially with minor characters – at this stage you’ve dipped your toe in hackwork.

It’s the writer’s job to SHOW how everyone else is feeling, through the eyes of your main character, whoever that may be in that particular scene. That for me is a richer read. I want to read in pictures. I want to see Joe angry and pissed off, not have him tell me, especially if he’s a nobody. Why would you need to dip into a second character’s head, anyway? Can’t they speak? Can’t they act? Even if this character is gagged and bound to a chair, can only blink and piss himself, but you absolutely must hear what’s going on in his head – if this scenario ever comes up, then you’ve probably opened the scene in the wrong head to start with.

It’s far too easy for a writer to just let the reader hear what’s going on, but it’s fear and a lack of imagination that makes you do it. And every time you succumb to that fear you’re taking the spotlight off your main character, diluting them in the eyes of your reader. Then you’re not dipping your toe in hackwork anymore – you’re drowning in it.
Cinnamon
 01 Jan 2010, 17:10 #79326 Reply To Post
Oops. Double post!! See below...

This post was last edited by Cinnamon, 01 Jan 2010, 17:14
E-asy Peasy?
Cinnamon
 01 Jan 2010, 17:10 #79327 Reply To Post
Quote: Lestat, Friday, 1 Jan 2010 16:15
I suppose it wouldn’t be a discussion if everyone agreed, so here are my thoughts.

I think dipping in and out of lots of heads diminishes the work – especially within a particular scene. I agree that most stories will need more than one POV character, but two or more in one scene is ridiculous and unnecessary.

Every time you tell the reader how a character is feeling, you diminish the work (agreed it has to be done sometimes, but less is more), especially with minor characters – at this stage you’ve dipped your toe in hackwork.

It’s the writer’s job to SHOW how everyone else is feeling, through the eyes of your main character, whoever that may be in that particular scene. That for me is a richer read. I want to read in pictures. I want to see Joe angry and pissed off, not have him tell me, especially if he’s a nobody. Why would you need to dip into a second character’s head, anyway? Can’t they speak? Can’t they act? Even if this character is gagged and bound to a chair, can only blink and piss himself, but you absolutely must hear what’s going on in his head – if this scenario ever comes up, then you’ve probably opened the scene in the wrong head to start with.

It’s far too easy for a writer to just let the reader hear what’s going on, but it’s fear and a lack of imagination that makes you do it. And every time you succumb to that fear you’re taking the spotlight off your main character, diluting them in the eyes of your reader. Then you’re not dipping your toe in hackwork anymore – you’re drowning in it.


I don't agree with this. It all depends on the skill and confidence of the writer and how well they can handle changes in POV and whether it serves the story well.

For example, Phillip Reeve in Mortal Engines jumps POV all over the place and it works because he's fantastically talented. It also gives his work a really distinctive flavour.

I've just been reading The Little Friend and in one pivotal section where one character is trying to drown another, Tartt switches from the POV of the drowner to the drownee (not sure if that's a word?!). Works brilliantly and really ups the tension.


This post was last edited by Cinnamon, 01 Jan 2010, 17:12
E-asy Peasy?
antonygloster
 01 Jan 2010, 17:12 #79328 Reply To Post
Quote: Lestat, Friday, 1 Jan 2010 16:15

It’s the writer’s job to SHOW how everyone else is feeling, through the eyes of your main character,


That's one take on it.
The writer's JOB is to engage the reader, make him want to read on.
This can be achieved in countless ways and for countless purposes: to inform, entertain, educate, protest etc.
Hackwork has nothing to do with p.o.v. and is a subjective comment anyway. Some 'elitist' people sneer at Stephen King and as a fan you would surely find this a ludicrous stance.
Sod the technique. Does the story grip you? The rest is wurst, as the Germans say.
AG
AG
Cinnamon
 01 Jan 2010, 17:13 #79329 Reply To Post
Quote: antonygloster, Friday, 1 Jan 2010 17:12


Does the story grip you? The rest is wurst, as the Germans say.
AG


Yep. Totally agree.
This post was last edited by Cinnamon, 01 Jan 2010, 17:14
E-asy Peasy?
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