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louheneghan
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I've just received a really helpful review from someone in the industry. I am incredibly grateful to them but I'm having real problems addressing her main criticism. Here's what she said:
'The reader is being told what is happening from an omniscient narrator – of course I’ve not read the rest of the book, but for an opening page I would prefer to have details from Ralf’s POV as he’s the main character. Whilst, as mentioned, I love your light touches of humour, the lack of perspective from Ralph didn’t help engage me as much as I would’ve liked. I think you write well, certainly, and Aunt Gloria is coming across as brilliantly eccentric, but POV is something you might need to consider.'
She goes on to say some really specific useful stuff which I've addressed, but my question is this: don't a lot of successful children's writers use an omniscient POV?
(I'm thinking Roald Dahl, Lemony Snicket and, of course JK Rowling here - JKR is especially interesting because Harry is just spoken about by other characters in chapter one and only appears as a character in his own right in chapter two. Dahl's 'Matilda' has stacks of general details about parents and children and even a list of books Matilda reads.)
So is this a change in market preference? Do kids not like this anymore? Or is it, as I suspect, that you can do omniscient POV but I just have to do it better than I have?!
I'm sure POV has been on the message board before but I was wondering if any of you helpful children's writers had any thoughts.
If anyone has read my opening (The Turnarounders) and has a lightening bolt of inspiration as to how I can fix this problem I'd be grateful for that as well.
I'm floundering in a mire of self doubt and depression...
I love Roald Dahl's writing! I thought kids liked a bit of backstory! But should I be reconsidering my entire approach?
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PERRY
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From what I recall Dahl tends to dot the back-history with the odd clipping of the protagonist's POV, like ... OR AS SUCH AND SUCH WOULD SAY etc ... giving the child's take on it. This would provide a direct link to the child's thought process. Dahl also employs the device of talking to the reader. View sample of Matilda. You will see from the end of page 13 - not very far in at all, considering the layout, that Matilda's POV is put across in subtle form "two glorious hours" - this being read as her experience without specifically being tagged such; in dialogue and then directly. Good writing rides out the fads, and it is worthwhile remembering that by all accounts The Philosophers Stone would not have made it to publishing if Rowling hadn't had someone in there who knew her. The reviewing editor had rejected it the first scan and only accepted it because that someone had retrieved it from the ditch-tray. Point? Subjectivity. As guest editors revealed in a recent course I took, the first read through by reviewing editors is dedicated to finding reasons NOT to publish. Only on passing that hurdle do they adopt a positive approach and look for why the book should be published. Rowling fell at the first fence - someone came with a forklift and carried her to the second. As with David Eddings' The Belgariad, there is also the device of providing a prologue which may be skipped by the reader to get right to the child Garion's pov "As long as Garion could remember [...]" (Pawn of Prophesy, Eddings, 1982). By clearly tagging a section as prologue your provide the reader with the choice of dismissal ... until they're hooked and must return. This book will also be revealing as to what is and what is not original. I hope this proves helpful. Good luck ... and that is another hurdle to vault.
This post was last edited by PERRY, 09 Feb 2012, 08:26
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Clairann
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One idea would be to write in 'third person close' or 'close third person' (different people call it different things, just to be confusing!) This means you have an omniscient narrator but that narrator 'sees' things from the main character's viewpoint - if that makes sense? For example, rather than: 'Bob went into the house which was a scary place.' You'd write: 'Bob went into the house. What a scary place! he thought' or: 'Bob went into the house. It seemed like a very scary place...' Do you see what I mean? If you Google it you'll find various examples that should help.
This post was last edited by Clairann, 09 Feb 2012, 08:48
www.clairhumphries.com
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louheneghan
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Thanks guys! Perry, I see what you mean about the 'Matilda' extract. I'm going to go through with a fine tooth comb now and try to find those types of sentences that Dahl uses to let us get inside Matilda's head. Re: Rowlng – I didn't know that. I knew she's been rejected by some publishers but had no idea she only got off the slush pile because someone knew her. That's a real bummer for me as I know no one! Re: Eddings. Great example. I can see exactly what you mean about the prologue. An interesting idea. There may be a way to rejig things a bit like this too. Thanks so much. Really useful advice - and just what I was looking for.  Clairann. Ah! I see now. I've had a look on google as you suggest and found some more examples of what you're suggesting – rather like what Perry is saying Dahl does, I think. I'm on this now. Thanks for the clear explanation. I think this is what some of my reviewers have been suggesting but I just couldn't see it until I had a concrete example in front of me. A case of woods and trees, I think. You don't happen to know what 'Deep Third' is, in terms of narrative voice, do you? Another reviewer has suggested this as a way out of my quandry but I can't find an explanation on google that I understand! I'm beginning to feel a bit like the village idiot.
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CaroleH
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Quote: louheneghan, Thursday, 9 Feb 2012 09:15Re: Rowlng – I didn't know that. I knew she's been rejected by some publishers but had no idea she only got off the slush pile because someone knew her. That's a real bummer for me as I know no one! Rowling didn't know anyone - somebody was feeling bored when having their coffee break, and idly picked up a manuscript to read off the slush pile. Agree that the first chapter is less than riveting - so the reader must have persevered past it.
This post was last edited by CaroleH, 09 Feb 2012, 09:45
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louheneghan
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Quote: CaroleH, Thursday, 9 Feb 2012 09:43Quote: louheneghan, Thursday, 9 Feb 2012 09:15Re: Rowlng – I didn't know that. I knew she's been rejected by some publishers but had no idea she only got off the slush pile because someone knew her. That's a real bummer for me as I know no one! Rowling didn't know anyone - somebody was feeling bored when having their coffee break, and idly picked up a manuscript to read off the slush pile. Agree that the first chapter is less than riveting - so the reader must have persevered past it. Seems the manner of her being noticed is entering the realms of publishing myth! Whichever is the case, the issue of the first chapter POV is still interesting. Do you really think it's 'less than riveting'? For me it was so full of enigmas I just had to read on. The POV was secondary to the plot. But maybe that's because I have the literary tastes of a ten year old!
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PERRY
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Quote: CaroleH, Thursday, 9 Feb 2012 09:43Quote: louheneghan, Thursday, 9 Feb 2012 09:15Re: Rowlng – I didn't know that. I knew she's been rejected by some publishers but had no idea she only got off the slush pile because someone knew her. That's a real bummer for me as I know no one! Rowling didn't know anyone - somebody was feeling bored when having their coffee break, and idly picked up a manuscript to read off the slush pile. Agree that the first chapter is less than riveting - so the reader must have persevered past it. I remember the account before the lawsuits and injunctions. I remember the lady in question being given such kudos that she appeared on Oprah. With the legal steps taken by the franchise I naturally cannot access that anymore and therefore prefix the suggestion with "by all accounts", incorporating the concept of the "alleged". A bald statement saying it isn't so is open to justified rebuke. You don't know, ergo - you cannot say that. However, that is by the way. My reference was merely to illustrate how a manuscript is addressed. louheneghan - Deep Third (sounds like espionage) is just a posey way of saying third person omniscient. It means you can take your mind's eye right inside either all the character's heads, or that of a selected character and read all their hopes and dreams, internal dialogue and emotions. Okay?
This post was last edited by PERRY, 09 Feb 2012, 10:54
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louheneghan
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Quote: PERRY, Thursday, 9 Feb 2012 10:47Quote: CaroleH, Thursday, 9 Feb 2012 09:43Quote: louheneghan, Thursday, 9 Feb 2012 09:15Re: Rowlng – I didn't know that. I knew she's been rejected by some publishers but had no idea she only got off the slush pile because someone knew her. That's a real bummer for me as I know no one! Rowling didn't know anyone - somebody was feeling bored when having their coffee break, and idly picked up a manuscript to read off the slush pile. Agree that the first chapter is less than riveting - so the reader must have persevered past it. I remember the account before the lawsuits and injunctions. I remember the lady in question being given such kudos that she appeared on Oprah. With the legal steps taken by the franchise I naturally cannot access that anymore and therefore prefix the suggestion with "by all accounts", incorporating the concept of the "alleged". A bald statement saying it isn't so is open to justified rebuke. You don't know, ergo - you cannot say that. However, that is by the way. My reference was merely to illustrate how a manuscript is addressed. louheneghan - Deep Third (sounds like espionage) is just a posey way of saying third person omniscient. It means you can take your mind's eye right inside either all the character's heads, or that of a selected character and read all their hopes and dreams, internal dialogue and emotions. Okay? Oh! Ta very much. Understand now. For some reason I didn't connect the two and thought it must be much more complicated/clever than that. 'Deep Third', as you say, has connotations of spies/cloak and dagger – I thought it must be either something deviously cunning or a bit rude! Cheers for all the help, Perry.
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