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bigbadjoe
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This post was last edited by bigbadjoe, 22 Jan 2012, 12:35
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PERRY
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Quote: rosefitzrobert No, homo sapiens sapiens and homo sapiens neandertalensis diverged from the same common ancestor, homo erectus, about 500 thousand years ago. However, since the first sequencing of neanderthal DNA a few years ago, the the idea that there was some interbreeding is now gaining currency as a result of more recent discoveries. At first they declared no way, but it was a very small DNA sample, and getting DNA from a 30K year old skeleton was quite a feat in itself - and lots of opportunity for DNA contamination. I'm not a scientist of any kind, so forgive errors in the above. Just a garden variety chain-smoking hippie peacenik neanderthal groupie. Thanks Rosie for clearing that up. So they reckon Neanders were a dead evolutionary branch then. Hope they're not and come out of the woods and down from the mountains when "sapiens sapientis" stuffs up. We have folklore in Ireland of the Fir Bolg - the hairy folk which post-dates the supposed extinction of the chappies. I was expecting to find you’d started this thread.
This post was last edited by PERRY, 22 Jan 2012, 13:01
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rosefitzrobert
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Quote: PERRY, Sunday, 22 Jan 2012 12:58Quote: rosefitzrobert No, homo sapiens sapiens and homo sapiens neandertalensis diverged from the same common ancestor, homo erectus, about 500 thousand years ago. However, since the first sequencing of neanderthal DNA a few years ago, the the idea that there was some interbreeding is now gaining currency as a result of more recent discoveries. At first they declared no way, but it was a very small DNA sample, and getting DNA from a 30K year old skeleton was quite a feat in itself - and lots of opportunity for DNA contamination. I'm not a scientist of any kind, so forgive errors in the above. Just a garden variety chain-smoking hippie peacenik neanderthal groupie. Thanks Rosie for clearing that up. So they reckon Neanders were a dead evolutionary branch then. Hope they're not and come out of the woods and down from the mountains when "sapiens sapientis" stuffs up. We have folklore in Ireland of the Fir Bolg - the hairy folk which post-dates the supposed extinction of the chappies. I was expecting to find you’d started this thread. Interesting you mentioned the Fir Bolg, because I had thought about them too! The Neanders survived until a mere (as I recall- too lazy to look up) 20Kyears ago, and co-inhabited Europe and the Near East for a good 20K years with Sapiens, as far as I understand from my unofficial studies into the matter. Our ability to speak requires a certain bone structure in the throat, which both Neanders and Sapiens have, so presumably Erectus had it. It also requires a certain gene, because people who have a defect on that gene are unable to speak, or have great difficulty. Neanders had this gene too, they found out when they did the DNA sequencing. Oddly enough, based on the structures, the scientists theorized that their voices would have been rather more high pitched than we would expect from such stocky people. Did you hear about the Hobbits over in, I think Borneo? Or Leprechauns, right? In this part of the world there was a legend about these little people who come to the villages and steal food. They actually found these skeletons, also about 18K years old of these three foot tall humanoids. Research is continuing. But 20K years ago is not that long, when you consider that the old kingdom of Egypt was what, 10K? People could certainly have remembered the Neanders, who they called the Fir Bolg, and passed this down where over time it became legend, and the Fir Bolg story grew and changed in the telling, as is generally the case. Love this thread.EDIT Oops, thank you Big Bad Joe, for starting this thread. I didn't notice your wee post at first, so I thought Perry had started it. Nice to meet you. I haven't run into you in the MB before. I wonder if draig will show up? I bet he's done lots of research on Neanders that he can share with us. OOOOOOOOOh , can't wait. I think this is the most interesting topic ever!
This post was last edited by rosefitzrobert, 22 Jan 2012, 13:37
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bigbadjoe
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I'm not much of a message boarder, but I saw this subject as fitting in with my stuff. It's fascinating and deserves a thread of its own.
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rosefitzrobert
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Quote: bigbadjoe, Sunday, 22 Jan 2012 13:59I'm not much of a message boarder, but I saw this subject as fitting in with my stuff. It's fascinating and deserves a thread of its own. And such a clever title! Love a good pun, just love it.
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draig
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Quote: PERRY, Sunday, 22 Jan 2012 12:58Quote: rosefitzrobert No, homo sapiens sapiens and homo sapiens neandertalensis diverged from the same common ancestor, homo erectus, about 500 thousand years ago. However, since the first sequencing of neanderthal DNA a few years ago, the the idea that there was some interbreeding is now gaining currency as a result of more recent discoveries. At first they declared no way, but it was a very small DNA sample, and getting DNA from a 30K year old skeleton was quite a feat in itself - and lots of opportunity for DNA contamination. I'm not a scientist of any kind, so forgive errors in the above. Just a garden variety chain-smoking hippie peacenik neanderthal groupie. Thanks Rosie for clearing that up. So they reckon Neanders were a dead evolutionary branch then. Hope they're not and come out of the woods and down from the mountains when "sapiens sapientis" stuffs up. We have folklore in Ireland of the Fir Bolg - the hairy folk which post-dates the supposed extinction of the chappies. I was expecting to find you’d started this thread. Interesting about the Fir Bolg. Without stirring up another religious debate I wonder if there's any mention of Neanders in the Bible?
The Stories so Far
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draig
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Quote: rosefitzrobert, Sunday, 22 Jan 2012 13:30Quote: PERRY, Sunday, 22 Jan 2012 12:58Quote: rosefitzrobert No, homo sapiens sapiens and homo sapiens neandertalensis diverged from the same common ancestor, homo erectus, about 500 thousand years ago. However, since the first sequencing of neanderthal DNA a few years ago, the the idea that there was some interbreeding is now gaining currency as a result of more recent discoveries. At first they declared no way, but it was a very small DNA sample, and getting DNA from a 30K year old skeleton was quite a feat in itself - and lots of opportunity for DNA contamination. I'm not a scientist of any kind, so forgive errors in the above. Just a garden variety chain-smoking hippie peacenik neanderthal groupie. Thanks Rosie for clearing that up. So they reckon Neanders were a dead evolutionary branch then. Hope they're not and come out of the woods and down from the mountains when "sapiens sapientis" stuffs up. We have folklore in Ireland of the Fir Bolg - the hairy folk which post-dates the supposed extinction of the chappies. I was expecting to find you’d started this thread. Interesting you mentioned the Fir Bolg, because I had thought about them too! The Neanders survived until a mere (as I recall- too lazy to look up) 20Kyears ago, and co-inhabited Europe and the Near East for a good 20K years with Sapiens, as far as I understand from my unofficial studies into the matter. Our ability to speak requires a certain bone structure in the throat, which both Neanders and Sapiens have, so presumably Erectus had it. It also requires a certain gene, because people who have a defect on that gene are unable to speak, or have great difficulty. Neanders had this gene too, they found out when they did the DNA sequencing. Oddly enough, based on the structures, the scientists theorized that their voices would have been rather more high pitched than we would expect from such stocky people. Did you hear about the Hobbits over in, I think Borneo? Or Leprechauns, right? In this part of the world there was a legend about these little people who come to the villages and steal food. They actually found these skeletons, also about 18K years old of these three foot tall humanoids. Research is continuing. But 20K years ago is not that long, when you consider that the old kingdom of Egypt was what, 10K? People could certainly have remembered the Neanders, who they called the Fir Bolg, and passed this down where over time it became legend, and the Fir Bolg story grew and changed in the telling, as is generally the case. Love this thread.EDIT Oops, thank you Big Bad Joe, for starting this thread. I didn't notice your wee post at first, so I thought Perry had started it. Nice to meet you. I haven't run into you in the MB before. I wonder if draig will show up? I bet he's done lots of research on Neanders that he can share with us. OOOOOOOOOh , can't wait. I think this is the most interesting topic ever! My research hasn't been that deep so I'm waiting for a reviewer to pull me up some time soon. There was a theory some time ago that reheads were decended from the Nans. Also that they survive as the Yeti (though I think they would be too tall -evolution maybe?). And they had a high pitched voice? I've given Zeezee a more gutteral one. Perhaps a high pitched one would add to the humour?
The Stories so Far
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rosefitzrobert
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Quote: draig, Sunday, 22 Jan 2012 16:33Quote: rosefitzrobert, Sunday, 22 Jan 2012 13:30Quote: PERRY, Sunday, 22 Jan 2012 12:58Quote: rosefitzrobert No, homo sapiens sapiens and homo sapiens neandertalensis diverged from the same common ancestor, homo erectus, about 500 thousand years ago. However, since the first sequencing of neanderthal DNA a few years ago, the the idea that there was some interbreeding is now gaining currency as a result of more recent discoveries. At first they declared no way, but it was a very small DNA sample, and getting DNA from a 30K year old skeleton was quite a feat in itself - and lots of opportunity for DNA contamination. I'm not a scientist of any kind, so forgive errors in the above. Just a garden variety chain-smoking hippie peacenik neanderthal groupie. Thanks Rosie for clearing that up. So they reckon Neanders were a dead evolutionary branch then. Hope they're not and come out of the woods and down from the mountains when "sapiens sapientis" stuffs up. We have folklore in Ireland of the Fir Bolg - the hairy folk which post-dates the supposed extinction of the chappies. I was expecting to find you’d started this thread. Interesting you mentioned the Fir Bolg, because I had thought about them too! The Neanders survived until a mere (as I recall- too lazy to look up) 20Kyears ago, and co-inhabited Europe and the Near East for a good 20K years with Sapiens, as far as I understand from my unofficial studies into the matter. Our ability to speak requires a certain bone structure in the throat, which both Neanders and Sapiens have, so presumably Erectus had it. It also requires a certain gene, because people who have a defect on that gene are unable to speak, or have great difficulty. Neanders had this gene too, they found out when they did the DNA sequencing. Oddly enough, based on the structures, the scientists theorized that their voices would have been rather more high pitched than we would expect from such stocky people. Did you hear about the Hobbits over in, I think Borneo? Or Leprechauns, right? In this part of the world there was a legend about these little people who come to the villages and steal food. They actually found these skeletons, also about 18K years old of these three foot tall humanoids. Research is continuing. But 20K years ago is not that long, when you consider that the old kingdom of Egypt was what, 10K? People could certainly have remembered the Neanders, who they called the Fir Bolg, and passed this down where over time it became legend, and the Fir Bolg story grew and changed in the telling, as is generally the case. Love this thread.EDIT Oops, thank you Big Bad Joe, for starting this thread. I didn't notice your wee post at first, so I thought Perry had started it. Nice to meet you. I haven't run into you in the MB before. I wonder if draig will show up? I bet he's done lots of research on Neanders that he can share with us. OOOOOOOOOh , can't wait. I think this is the most interesting topic ever! My research hasn't been that deep so I'm waiting for a reviewer to pull me up some time soon. There was a theory some time ago that reheads were decended from the Nans. Also that they survive as the Yeti (though I think they would be too tall -evolution maybe?). And they had a high pitched voice? I've given Zeezee a more gutteral one. Perhaps a high pitched one would add to the humour? A high pitched voice would be really funny, as well as scientifically au courant. I thought about the Yeti too - not exactly sure how tall the Yeti is supposed to be, but looking the American born children of various populations, it is clear that height is greatly influenced by protein intake. Yeah, I'd heard the red-head thing too - maybe that was why I liked 'em in the firstplace, but I actually don't think that the science based on the DNA project has come up with anything on that, as far as I know. As for ZeeZee, of course there's no reason why a Nan raised in modern England would want to cover the floor with leaves and dirt, but this art, and in your case humour. And I also like the implication, though it probably has no scientific basis whatever, that they Nans are somehow genetically (?) more in touch with the natural world. Actually, all the scientists yakking on the subject actually thought that if you dressed a Nan in modern clothing, they would not especially stand out on the London Underground during rush hour. And of course there is no reason why they'd dislike wearing pants any more or less than any Saps, but once again, its funny. Your vision of the Nans is not how I would have envisoned them, but my story probably wouldn't have been funny. So there you have it
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draig
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Quote: rosefitzrobert, Sunday, 22 Jan 2012 16:59Quote: draig, Sunday, 22 Jan 2012 16:33Quote: rosefitzrobert, Sunday, 22 Jan 2012 13:30Quote: PERRY, Sunday, 22 Jan 2012 12:58Quote: rosefitzrobert No, homo sapiens sapiens and homo sapiens neandertalensis diverged from the same common ancestor, homo erectus, about 500 thousand years ago. However, since the first sequencing of neanderthal DNA a few years ago, the the idea that there was some interbreeding is now gaining currency as a result of more recent discoveries. At first they declared no way, but it was a very small DNA sample, and getting DNA from a 30K year old skeleton was quite a feat in itself - and lots of opportunity for DNA contamination. I'm not a scientist of any kind, so forgive errors in the above. Just a garden variety chain-smoking hippie peacenik neanderthal groupie. Thanks Rosie for clearing that up. So they reckon Neanders were a dead evolutionary branch then. Hope they're not and come out of the woods and down from the mountains when "sapiens sapientis" stuffs up. We have folklore in Ireland of the Fir Bolg - the hairy folk which post-dates the supposed extinction of the chappies. I was expecting to find you’d started this thread. Interesting you mentioned the Fir Bolg, because I had thought about them too! The Neanders survived until a mere (as I recall- too lazy to look up) 20Kyears ago, and co-inhabited Europe and the Near East for a good 20K years with Sapiens, as far as I understand from my unofficial studies into the matter. Our ability to speak requires a certain bone structure in the throat, which both Neanders and Sapiens have, so presumably Erectus had it. It also requires a certain gene, because people who have a defect on that gene are unable to speak, or have great difficulty. Neanders had this gene too, they found out when they did the DNA sequencing. Oddly enough, based on the structures, the scientists theorized that their voices would have been rather more high pitched than we would expect from such stocky people. Did you hear about the Hobbits over in, I think Borneo? Or Leprechauns, right? In this part of the world there was a legend about these little people who come to the villages and steal food. They actually found these skeletons, also about 18K years old of these three foot tall humanoids. Research is continuing. But 20K years ago is not that long, when you consider that the old kingdom of Egypt was what, 10K? People could certainly have remembered the Neanders, who they called the Fir Bolg, and passed this down where over time it became legend, and the Fir Bolg story grew and changed in the telling, as is generally the case. Love this thread.EDIT Oops, thank you Big Bad Joe, for starting this thread. I didn't notice your wee post at first, so I thought Perry had started it. Nice to meet you. I haven't run into you in the MB before. I wonder if draig will show up? I bet he's done lots of research on Neanders that he can share with us. OOOOOOOOOh , can't wait. I think this is the most interesting topic ever! My research hasn't been that deep so I'm waiting for a reviewer to pull me up some time soon. There was a theory some time ago that reheads were decended from the Nans. Also that they survive as the Yeti (though I think they would be too tall -evolution maybe?). And they had a high pitched voice? I've given Zeezee a more gutteral one. Perhaps a high pitched one would add to the humour? A high pitched voice would be really funny, as well as scientifically au courant. I thought about the Yeti too - not exactly sure how tall the Yeti is supposed to be, but looking the American born children of various populations, it is clear that height is greatly influenced by protein intake. Yeah, I'd heard the red-head thing too - maybe that was why I liked 'em in the firstplace, but I actually don't think that the science based on the DNA project has come up with anything on that, as far as I know. As for ZeeZee, of course there's no reason why a Nan raised in modern England would want to cover the floor with leaves and dirt, but this art, and in your case humour. And I also like the implication, though it probably has no scientific basis whatever, that they Nans are somehow genetically (?) more in touch with the natural world. Actually, all the scientists yakking on the subject actually thought that if you dressed a Nan in modern clothing, they would not especially stand out on the London Underground during rush hour. And of course there is no reason why they'd dislike wearing pants any more or less than any Saps, but once again, its funny. Your vision of the Nans is not how I would have envisoned them, but my story probably wouldn't have been funny. So there you have it I think a Nan would stand out in the modern world, because of the brow more than anything. Nans and Chromags lived side by side for twelve thousand years so there must have been some sexual interaction, even if they were genetically incompatible. And the Nans improved their tool-making from the chromags. Personally I think it was absorption, given the discovery of a 3 year old hybrid skeleton a few years ago. The high protein diet (85% meat) would explain the muscular strength of the Nans - twice that of ours.
The Stories so Far
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rosefitzrobert
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Quote: draig, Sunday, 22 Jan 2012 17:40Quote: rosefitzrobert, Sunday, 22 Jan 2012 16:59Quote: draig, Sunday, 22 Jan 2012 16:33Quote: rosefitzrobert, Sunday, 22 Jan 2012 13:30Quote: PERRY, Sunday, 22 Jan 2012 12:58Quote: rosefitzrobert No, homo sapiens sapiens and homo sapiens neandertalensis diverged from the same common ancestor, homo erectus, about 500 thousand years ago. However, since the first sequencing of neanderthal DNA a few years ago, the the idea that there was some interbreeding is now gaining currency as a result of more recent discoveries. At first they declared no way, but it was a very small DNA sample, and getting DNA from a 30K year old skeleton was quite a feat in itself - and lots of opportunity for DNA contamination. I'm not a scientist of any kind, so forgive errors in the above. Just a garden variety chain-smoking hippie peacenik neanderthal groupie. Thanks Rosie for clearing that up. So they reckon Neanders were a dead evolutionary branch then. Hope they're not and come out of the woods and down from the mountains when "sapiens sapientis" stuffs up. We have folklore in Ireland of the Fir Bolg - the hairy folk which post-dates the supposed extinction of the chappies. I was expecting to find you’d started this thread. Interesting you mentioned the Fir Bolg, because I had thought about them too! The Neanders survived until a mere (as I recall- too lazy to look up) 20Kyears ago, and co-inhabited Europe and the Near East for a good 20K years with Sapiens, as far as I understand from my unofficial studies into the matter. Our ability to speak requires a certain bone structure in the throat, which both Neanders and Sapiens have, so presumably Erectus had it. It also requires a certain gene, because people who have a defect on that gene are unable to speak, or have great difficulty. Neanders had this gene too, they found out when they did the DNA sequencing. Oddly enough, based on the structures, the scientists theorized that their voices would have been rather more high pitched than we would expect from such stocky people. Did you hear about the Hobbits over in, I think Borneo? Or Leprechauns, right? In this part of the world there was a legend about these little people who come to the villages and steal food. They actually found these skeletons, also about 18K years old of these three foot tall humanoids. Research is continuing. But 20K years ago is not that long, when you consider that the old kingdom of Egypt was what, 10K? People could certainly have remembered the Neanders, who they called the Fir Bolg, and passed this down where over time it became legend, and the Fir Bolg story grew and changed in the telling, as is generally the case. Love this thread.EDIT Oops, thank you Big Bad Joe, for starting this thread. I didn't notice your wee post at first, so I thought Perry had started it. Nice to meet you. I haven't run into you in the MB before. I wonder if draig will show up? I bet he's done lots of research on Neanders that he can share with us. OOOOOOOOOh , can't wait. I think this is the most interesting topic ever! My research hasn't been that deep so I'm waiting for a reviewer to pull me up some time soon. There was a theory some time ago that reheads were decended from the Nans. Also that they survive as the Yeti (though I think they would be too tall -evolution maybe?). And they had a high pitched voice? I've given Zeezee a more gutteral one. Perhaps a high pitched one would add to the humour? A high pitched voice would be really funny, as well as scientifically au courant. I thought about the Yeti too - not exactly sure how tall the Yeti is supposed to be, but looking the American born children of various populations, it is clear that height is greatly influenced by protein intake. Yeah, I'd heard the red-head thing too - maybe that was why I liked 'em in the firstplace, but I actually don't think that the science based on the DNA project has come up with anything on that, as far as I know. As for ZeeZee, of course there's no reason why a Nan raised in modern England would want to cover the floor with leaves and dirt, but this art, and in your case humour. And I also like the implication, though it probably has no scientific basis whatever, that they Nans are somehow genetically (?) more in touch with the natural world. Actually, all the scientists yakking on the subject actually thought that if you dressed a Nan in modern clothing, they would not especially stand out on the London Underground during rush hour. And of course there is no reason why they'd dislike wearing pants any more or less than any Saps, but once again, its funny. Your vision of the Nans is not how I would have envisoned them, but my story probably wouldn't have been funny. So there you have it I think a Nan would stand out in the modern world, because of the brow more than anything. Nans and Chromags lived side by side for twelve thousand years so there must have been some sexual interaction, even if they were genetically incompatible. And the Nans improved their tool-making from the chromags. Personally I think it was absorption, given the discovery of a 3 year old hybrid skeleton a few years ago. The high protein diet (85% meat) would explain the muscular strength of the Nans - twice that of ours. Yes, it does seem hard to believe that in 12K years of proximity there would be no sexual interaction. My understanding is that there is no reason they couldn't interbreed, and the skeleton, as you say (was that the one in Portugal?) I'm not sure, but I had the impression that Nans and Saps were still close enough to produce fertile offsping (unlike horses and donkeys) and the latest genetic anaysis I saw was cause for celebration - modern humans have been found with as high as 5% Nan DNA - THEY LIVE! You'd want to be wearing bangs or a hat because of those brow ridges...
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In Neander-thrall
22 Jan 2012, 12:35
