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Harry Potter- reducto??
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Joe 90
 20 Jul 2011, 08:54 #124166 Reply To Post
Okay, straight away, HP is a commercial success. No doubt about it. JK is rolling in it.

But having just watched the last movie (is it the last?) and no doubt helped JKR purchase another solid gold bidet for her castle, I am left wondering, what was it all about?

Usual plot: goodie meets baddie, kills baddie, happily ever after etc.

Along the way goodie undergoes soul-hardening trials of wizarding lore and teenage angst, to the backdrop of a darkening storm of badness.

I feel this could have been done in three volumes at most, with interweaving of stories. For example, the horcruxes could have made a much sooner entry, and featured as a backdrop even at the beginning. The deathly hallows could have been cut altogether for all they achieved. The devices of the trials for the goblet of fire were all very well, but the usual weakness ensued: I call it the 'oh get on and kill him, you moron!' weakness.

At many points, HP could have avadra'd big V. But apparently according to modern literature, this isn't the done thing as it makes him as bad. But so could Voldemort have got Harry. Missed opportunities abound.

When the death eaters mangled up the bridge in London, my interest picked up. Now these naughty people were doing some serious damage, magic was running amock. But again, nothing was really made of it.

What the last two doorstop books boiled down to was a treasure hunt and a denoument that was so delayed as to prompt the question; is V really dead? Or waiting to return when JKR has spent all that cash?

Or perhaps I should read the books for the hidden subtleties?

As I said at the outset, commercial success, indeniable. But a literary landmark?
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RayM
 20 Jul 2011, 12:31 #124184 Reply To Post
You haven't read the books?

There is A LOT in the books that didn't make it to the screen. They're a lot fuller and for all the right reasons. Cramming them down into movies, while good and entertaining for readers and non-readers of the books alike, it did leave a lot of stuff out that really rounded off the plot and explained things.

I mean, you've seen the size of Lord of the Rings and that got made into three seperate movies for the three seperate parts. When it comes to Harry Potter, they finally realised they could do this with the last book and made it into two movies - but still, absolute loads was missed out. Same with the sixth book and movie - so much was left out of the movie.

Why did Harry not kill Voldemort when he had the chance? First, he's the good guy and it's a YA book so... yeah. But second, he wasn't strong enough to use the Avada Kedavra curse. As for why Voldemort didn't kill Harry, at first he needed Harry in order to return to power.

I haven't seen the final movie yet... going to watch it tonight. So I'll get to find out tonight what they've done with it and get to see how much it differs from the book. But something tells me that there will be some huge differences.

So to answer your question of whether or not the Harry Potter books could have been slimmed down: Yes. Yes they could. Just like Lord of the Rings could have been slimmed down and many other large volumes. But by slimming them down, you would also be taking a lot away.
This post was last edited by RayM, 20 Jul 2011, 12:32
Joe 90
 20 Jul 2011, 13:59 #124197 Reply To Post
Quote: RayM, Wednesday, 20 Jul 2011 12:31
You haven't read the books?

There is A LOT in the books that didn't make it to the screen. They're a lot fuller and for all the right reasons. Cramming them down into movies, while good and entertaining for readers and non-readers of the books alike, it did leave a lot of stuff out that really rounded off the plot and explained things.

I mean, you've seen the size of Lord of the Rings and that got made into three seperate movies for the three seperate parts. When it comes to Harry Potter, they finally realised they could do this with the last book and made it into two movies - but still, absolute loads was missed out. Same with the sixth book and movie - so much was left out of the movie.

Why did Harry not kill Voldemort when he had the chance? First, he's the good guy and it's a YA book so... yeah. But second, he wasn't strong enough to use the Avada Kedavra curse. As for why Voldemort didn't kill Harry, at first he needed Harry in order to return to power.

I haven't seen the final movie yet... going to watch it tonight. So I'll get to find out tonight what they've done with it and get to see how much it differs from the book. But something tells me that there will be some huge differences.

So to answer your question of whether or not the Harry Potter books could have been slimmed down: Yes. Yes they could. Just like Lord of the Rings could have been slimmed down and many other large volumes. But by slimming them down, you would also be taking a lot away.


I have read the books, but have not noticed these undercurrents you seem to have seen.
What I did notice though was a change in the way she wrote when it became clear that HP was going to be a screen epic. The writing became more cinematic.
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RayM
 20 Jul 2011, 14:37 #124208 Reply To Post
Definitely! The books and writing really did start to become much larger after they started making them into movies. I guess it shows how success really can infuence things like writing.
erict
 22 Jul 2011, 14:06 #124537 Reply To Post
Not seen the final film yet, but the part one was one of the worst cinema experiences of my life - awful. I don't feel any of the films really worked and agree about the bridge sequence. Why?

I did enjoy the books including the last one, but then success did free JK from a need to edit. I often look at this writing and the hoops that we are supposed to leap through and wonder who suggests the "rules". I'd rather have RK's success than a book devoid of -ly words.

Final comment - any film with Helena Bonham-Carter in full crazed slut mode is worth seeing.

ET
sod
 23 Jul 2011, 01:27 #124615 Reply To Post
I'm one of the saddo's who really liked the books (read them over and over for some reason) but I hate the films. They are completely different from the books and as I know then so well, I find myself shouting at the screen. Sad, I know!!!
As the films went on, they just got worse!!!
Lisa.
Joe 90
 23 Jul 2011, 08:58 #124645 Reply To Post
Quote: sod, Saturday, 23 Jul 2011 01:27
I'm one of the saddo's who really liked the books (read them over and over for some reason) but I hate the films. They are completely different from the books and as I know then so well, I find myself shouting at the screen. Sad, I know!!!
As the films went on, they just got worse!!!
Lisa.


Is that why your avatar looks a little glum?
Don't get me wrong - great concept, (note the number of imitations!) and you can get the measure of the plot from the films without reading the books. But all those words...were they really necessary? Put another way, if HP had been a minor success, would we still have hernia-inducing final volumes? Or did JKR write up to her success? Or as suggested, was above editting?

Provoke...provoke...
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notleyab
 23 Jul 2011, 12:46 #124689 Reply To Post
Quote: Joe 90, Wednesday, 20 Jul 2011 08:54
As I said at the outset, commercial success, indeniable. But a literary landmark?


HAS it occurred tt not everyone wants to read a literary landmark?
That some, nay many readers, just want to be entertained.
I've not knowingly picked up an HP book.
And, if I recall correctly, the longest bit of one of the films I saw (abt 5 mins) was spent reading the sub titles as Harry spoke in perfect Mandarin.
(Clearly a bloody good languages school Hogwarts)
For all that gets thrown at her, accept La Rowling for 1 thing at least - she has learnt the art of entertaining.
And in my book she shd be applauded.
RobertB
 24 Jul 2011, 00:03 #124795 Reply To Post
Films are very rarely as good as the books, and these are no exception. The books can be wordy at times, but I love the way each book builds on the one before; they're so closely integrated it's almost one novel in seven parts.
sod
 24 Jul 2011, 15:57 #124860 Reply To Post
Quote: Joe 90, Saturday, 23 Jul 2011 08:58
Quote: sod, Saturday, 23 Jul 2011 01:27
I'm one of the saddo's who really liked the books (read them over and over for some reason) but I hate the films. They are completely different from the books and as I know then so well, I find myself shouting at the screen. Sad, I know!!!
As the films went on, they just got worse!!!
Lisa.


Is that why your avatar looks a little glum?
Don't get me wrong - great concept, (note the number of imitations!) and you can get the measure of the plot from the films without reading the books. But all those words...were they really necessary? Put another way, if HP had been a minor success, would we still have hernia-inducing final volumes? Or did JKR write up to her success? Or as suggested, was above editting?

Provoke...provoke...


Yes probably is why my avatar is a little glum!!!!
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