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sulcus
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My favourite writer extant: "I used to think it was possible for an artist to alter the inner life of the culture. Now bomb-makers and gunmen have taken that territory." Do we agree? If so, why are artists and writers failing to have much impact on cultural life & ideas?
This post was last edited by sulcus, 11 Aug 2010, 19:45
"A,B&E", "Not In My Name" and "52FF" (flash fiction anthology) all available on Amazon Kindle"How a psychopath makes sweet love. I can get you ringside. Royal box even."
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Malcolm
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I think as multi-media corporations take over communications, there's a more limited range of ideas available. You may argue that the internet offers more, and no doubt it does, but when I look at any web browser's "news" page, I see "stories" about how much money the latest teen vampire movie is making at the box office. When I click on any of the business articles, or even the health and lifestyle articles, I see a mostly conservative slant on things. You really have to stray off the beaten path to find any new or original or even challenging ideas.
No stars. No charts. Just crits.
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Joe 90
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Quote: sulcus, Wednesday, 11 Aug 2010 19:45My favourite writer extant: "I used to think it was possible for an artist to alter the inner life of the culture. Now bomb-makers and gunmen have taken that territory." Do we agree? If so, why are artists and writers failing to have much impact on cultural life & ideas? When I was young, (not quite so long ago,) swearing out loud was regarded as loutish. Promiscuity was still disapproved (even if it was practised covertly.) Violent behaviour still made the local paper and drunkeness was seen as moral degeneracy. Media, TV, books, films, magazines have changed attitudes to these. They are 'spiced up,' excused, treated with indifference and generally accepted. Have writers and artists really had no impact on cultrual life?
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sulcus
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Quote: Joe 90, Thursday, 12 Aug 2010 13:06Quote: sulcus, Wednesday, 11 Aug 2010 19:45My favourite writer extant: "I used to think it was possible for an artist to alter the inner life of the culture. Now bomb-makers and gunmen have taken that territory." Do we agree? If so, why are artists and writers failing to have much impact on cultural life & ideas? When I was young, (not quite so long ago,) swearing out loud was regarded as loutish. Promiscuity was still disapproved (even if it was practised covertly.) Violent behaviour still made the local paper and drunkeness was seen as moral degeneracy. Media, TV, books, films, magazines have changed attitudes to these. They are 'spiced up,' excused, treated with indifference and generally accepted. Have writers and artists really had no impact on cultrual life? One might argue that if parents took their overseeing role more seriously & educational standards had not plummeted, then the pervasive influence of external media could be handled better by generations of free-thinking & self-reliant people. It really is a culture-wide dumbing down, downward turn of the ratchet of acceptable behaviour. A book doesn't make people go out & imitate Brett Easton Ellis' American Psycho, or the film of A Clockwork Orange lead to people dressed up in white raping & steaming uinto people - of course both DID have their literal imitators in real life, but such individuals were I would argue predisposed to susceptibility by the damage done to them in their upbringing. Art may be the catalyst, but it is not the root cause.
"A,B&E", "Not In My Name" and "52FF" (flash fiction anthology) all available on Amazon Kindle"How a psychopath makes sweet love. I can get you ringside. Royal box even."
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Joe 90
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Quote: sulcus, Thursday, 12 Aug 2010 13:37One might argue that if parents took their overseeing role more seriously & educational standards had not plummeted, then the pervasive influence of external media could be handled better by generations of free-thinking & self-reliant people. It really is a culture-wide dumbing down, downward turn of the ratchet of acceptable behaviour. A book doesn't make people go out & imitate Brett Easton Ellis' American Psycho, or the film of A Clockwork Orange lead to people dressed up in white raping & steaming uinto people - of course both DID have their literal imitators in real life, but such individuals were I would argue predisposed to susceptibility by the damage done to them in their upbringing. Art may be the catalyst, but it is not the root cause. Whilst it is true that 'ordinary people' do not ape what they see and hear, it is also true that a piece of granite can be eroded by a continual dripping of water. Ordinary people use expletives that were considered the domain of uncivilized uneducated individuals. Nobody questions the slide in standards. That's because the media have dripped these debased standards into our national psyche. Everybody does it. So in order to write 'realistic ' material it has to incorporate the latest linguistic nasties. people read this, accept it as the norm, and hey! off we go further downhill. The same will invariably apply to other standards of behaviour that debase human beings. Drip drip drip.
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sulcus
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Quote: Joe 90, Thursday, 12 Aug 2010 20:21Quote: sulcus, Thursday, 12 Aug 2010 13:37One might argue that if parents took their overseeing role more seriously & educational standards had not plummeted, then the pervasive influence of external media could be handled better by generations of free-thinking & self-reliant people. It really is a culture-wide dumbing down, downward turn of the ratchet of acceptable behaviour. A book doesn't make people go out & imitate Brett Easton Ellis' American Psycho, or the film of A Clockwork Orange lead to people dressed up in white raping & steaming uinto people - of course both DID have their literal imitators in real life, but such individuals were I would argue predisposed to susceptibility by the damage done to them in their upbringing. Art may be the catalyst, but it is not the root cause. Whilst it is true that 'ordinary people' do not ape what they see and hear, it is also true that a piece of granite can be eroded by a continual dripping of water. Ordinary people use expletives that were considered the domain of uncivilized uneducated individuals. Nobody questions the slide in standards. That's because the media have dripped these debased standards into our national psyche. Everybody does it. So in order to write 'realistic ' material it has to incorporate the latest linguistic nasties. people read this, accept it as the norm, and hey! off we go further downhill. The same will invariably apply to other standards of behaviour that debase human beings. Drip drip drip. I don't see it like that. I think it's generational. It takes leaps as the generations increasingly fail to talk to one another; parents failing to devote themselves to their kids; kids adopting oppositional stances towards their elders as part of their stepping out into adulthood at the age of about 13... The media do set many agendas, but as far as something organic like language, they are really well off the pace.
"A,B&E", "Not In My Name" and "52FF" (flash fiction anthology) all available on Amazon Kindle"How a psychopath makes sweet love. I can get you ringside. Royal box even."
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Turnip
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Quote: Joe 90, Thursday, 12 Aug 2010 20:21Whilst it is true that 'ordinary people' do not ape what they see and hear, it is also true that a piece of granite can be eroded by a continual dripping of water. Ordinary people use expletives that were considered the domain of uncivilized uneducated individuals. Nobody questions the slide in standards. That's because the media have dripped these debased standards into our national psyche. Everybody does it. So in order to write 'realistic ' material it has to incorporate the latest linguistic nasties. people read this, accept it as the norm, and hey! off we go further downhill. The same will invariably apply to other standards of behaviour that debase human beings. Drip drip drip. Hmm. Dripping water on granite could also lead to formation of a stalagmite, building something new...
Back to my roots.
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Joe 90
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Quote: Turnip, Thursday, 12 Aug 2010 21:43 Hmm. Dripping water on granite could also lead to formation of a stalagmite, building something new...
Ah! In order for stalagmites to form, you needs a limestones solution. Not very usual in granite regions
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Malcolm
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Quote: Joe 90, Thursday, 12 Aug 2010 20:21Quote: sulcus, Thursday, 12 Aug 2010 13:37One might argue that if parents took their overseeing role more seriously & educational standards had not plummeted, then the pervasive influence of external media could be handled better by generations of free-thinking & self-reliant people. It really is a culture-wide dumbing down, downward turn of the ratchet of acceptable behaviour. A book doesn't make people go out & imitate Brett Easton Ellis' American Psycho, or the film of A Clockwork Orange lead to people dressed up in white raping & steaming uinto people - of course both DID have their literal imitators in real life, but such individuals were I would argue predisposed to susceptibility by the damage done to them in their upbringing. Art may be the catalyst, but it is not the root cause. Whilst it is true that 'ordinary people' do not ape what they see and hear, it is also true that a piece of granite can be eroded by a continual dripping of water. Ordinary people use expletives that were considered the domain of uncivilized uneducated individuals. Nobody questions the slide in standards. That's because the media have dripped these debased standards into our national psyche. Everybody does it. So in order to write 'realistic ' material it has to incorporate the latest linguistic nasties. people read this, accept it as the norm, and hey! off we go further downhill. The same will invariably apply to other standards of behaviour that debase human beings. Drip drip drip. I don't really find this true in American television and films. Yes, much of cable tv glamorizes drinking and promiscuity, but the networks and movies are surprisingly censored. I turned on the TV late one night to find them showing Goodfellas, one of my favorite movies. It was so bleeped and edited as to make me wonder why they didn't just show a different movie. American movies are notoriously reticent about male nudity and ridiculously coy about certain sexual acts, even in films rated R--that is, intended for adult audiences. As far as foul language, there's a time and a place for everything. There's no point in having these words if no one ever uses them. I was raised to believe that curse words were a privilege of adulthood, and even then, it's wise to choose your audience carefully. I'm not always that careful about my audience, but then, in a community of writers, I don't expect anyone to be shocked by a word. Personally, I think it shows progress that the word "fuck" has become acceptable and the word "nigger" has become obscene.
No stars. No charts. Just crits.
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Joe 90
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Quote: Malcolm, Friday, 13 Aug 2010 06:02Quote: Joe 90, Thursday, 12 Aug 2010 20:21Quote: sulcus, Thursday, 12 Aug 2010 13:37One might argue that if parents took their overseeing role more seriously & educational standards had not plummeted, then the pervasive influence of external media could be handled better by generations of free-thinking & self-reliant people. It really is a culture-wide dumbing down, downward turn of the ratchet of acceptable behaviour. A book doesn't make people go out & imitate Brett Easton Ellis' American Psycho, or the film of A Clockwork Orange lead to people dressed up in white raping & steaming uinto people - of course both DID have their literal imitators in real life, but such individuals were I would argue predisposed to susceptibility by the damage done to them in their upbringing. Art may be the catalyst, but it is not the root cause. Whilst it is true that 'ordinary people' do not ape what they see and hear, it is also true that a piece of granite can be eroded by a continual dripping of water. Ordinary people use expletives that were considered the domain of uncivilized uneducated individuals. Nobody questions the slide in standards. That's because the media have dripped these debased standards into our national psyche. Everybody does it. So in order to write 'realistic ' material it has to incorporate the latest linguistic nasties. people read this, accept it as the norm, and hey! off we go further downhill. The same will invariably apply to other standards of behaviour that debase human beings. Drip drip drip. As far as foul language, there's a time and a place for everything. There's no point in having these words if no one ever uses them. I was raised to believe that curse words were a privilege of adulthood, and even then, it's wise to choose your audience carefully. I'm not always that careful about my audience, but then, in a community of writers, I don't expect anyone to be shocked by a word. Personally, I think it shows progress that the word "fuck" has become acceptable and the word "nigger" has become obscene. Out of interest, when everybody is using four-letter words with complete abandon, (not far from now) how do you show extreme exasperation or distress? Will we end up with Douglas Adams' 'Oh Belgium, man!'
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Don Delillo says-
11 Aug 2010, 19:45
