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YouWriteOn
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YWO royalties are usually over a pound net to author for distribution books. That's higher than the norm for mainstream publishing. The new system being programmed is aimed at showing exactly to the author what the royalty will be for their individual book. Sometimes, under the present system, a book may be a little under £1 direct though. For example, if you are squeezing a high page count into a marketable retail price bracket, e.g. £6.99 then the bookseller discount and the printing costs are deducted. It's a trade-off between marketable book price and royalties. In the new system, the author will be able to decide exactly which way they wish to go with royalties and book price. It's a huge programming schedule, so can't give an exact start date, but we have been, and will be, working really hard to bring in the kind of system which will free to publish/sell through the site direct, and comparatively really economic to sell through booksellers. We just don't agree with companies that charge hundreds of pounds for print on demand, it's rather pointless to pay that much, so we'll be keeping it low cost, and adding some interesting opportunities at the same time. I think in time we'll see a 'market' shift towards lower priced POD books for readers, a 300 page book at £10.99 or £11.99 which some other publishers charge doesn't make much sense. We use the same printers as some who charge this much so we know it's just profit mark-up on these publishers part. They are businesses though, that's the reality for all publishers, and some have brought in some interesting innovations. But we think there will be a growing moving towards pricing, including retail book prices for POD, dropping over the next one to two years. We will see .. though you can never prejudge anything, if they put VAT on book sales for example to help the economy! Have a good weekend.
This post was last edited by YouWriteOn, 20 Feb 2010, 13:41
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annswinfen
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Temperance, you say: 'I'm not sure what having had three books published with Random House has to do with anything. Do they discuss discount structures with writers? None of my published friends know exactly what discounts are given on their books.'
Yes, it is relevant, because it is clear from one's royalty statements what discounts have been given.
I'm surprised and sad that you seem so hostile to my hope that bookshops might be given something like 30% instead of 10%.
I've always thought that writers and independent bookshops should support each other, if possible. It appears that I am mistaken.
This post was last edited by annswinfen, 20 Feb 2010, 18:36
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Turnip
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Quote: YouWriteOn, Saturday, 20 Feb 2010 13:40YWO royalties are usually over a pound net to author for distribution books. That's higher than the norm for mainstream publishing. The new system being programmed is aimed at showing exactly to the author what the royalty will be for their individual book. Sometimes, under the present system, a book may be a little under £1 direct though. For example, if you are squeezing a high page count into a marketable retail price bracket, e.g. £6.99 then the bookseller discount and the printing costs are deducted. It's a trade-off between marketable book price and royalties. In the new system, the author will be able to decide exactly which way they wish to go with royalties and book price. It's a huge programming schedule, so can't give an exact start date, but we have been, and will be, working really hard to bring in the kind of system which will free to publish/sell through the site direct, and comparatively really economic to sell through booksellers. We just don't agree with companies that charge hundreds of pounds for print on demand, it's rather pointless to pay that much, so we'll be keeping it low cost, and adding some interesting opportunities at the same time. I think in time we'll see a 'market' shift towards lower priced POD books for readers, a 300 page book at £10.99 or £11.99 which some other publishers charge doesn't make much sense. We use the same printers as some who charge this much so we know it's just profit mark-up on these publishers part. They are businesses though, that's the reality for all publishers, and some have brought in some interesting innovations. But we think there will be a growing moving towards pricing, including retail book prices for POD, dropping over the next one to two years. We will see .. though you can never prejudge anything, if they put VAT on book sales for example to help the economy! quote] ********************************** I wish YWO all the best with this new-improved POD venture, and it has to be applauded in the face of the harsh criticism that Ted has received on the web and in print. For me this is definitely the way forward. I can understand Tempy's reticence about discounts because that's business. We only have to do the sums to work out how many books and at what margin an independent needs to sell to earn the same money (costs + overheads first then profit) that some of us have in our day jobs. There is a lot of frustration with new authors struggling to hook an agent, let alone a publisher. Like getting your dream job or dream partner it needs a coincidence of judgement and luck e.g. happening to land on the desk of a new agent, desperate for a stable of new authors. That happened to a friend of mine who ended up sharing an agent with Cecilia Ahern (well, for a while anyway). What do we want? YWO (new improved) POD, ASAP, SVP, etc. Then a lucky break so we can get our books on Tempy's delectable shelves too! 
Back to my roots.
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Temperance
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Ann, I’m never hostile; life’s way too short. I’ve survived eight of the book trade’s most difficult years during which an alarming number of indies have gone to the wall. Those of us who remain have to think long and hard about each book we stock and discount obviously plays an important part in the process. With Lulu alone pumping out a thousand new titles per day the marketplace is becoming flooded at a time when book buying is decreasing. Getting a self-pubbed novel noticed let alone achieving appreciable sales is a real uphill struggle. I wish you much luck with it and I’ll watch your sales figures with interest. Hey Turnip. I’ve always had a weakness for root vegetables so get yourself a good product and a workable discount, and you may well find yourself on my Twenty Tempting Titles chalkboard. Lol. Tempy
This post was last edited by Temperance, 21 Feb 2010, 11:02
Everyone has a price - mine is chocolate Chocolate is important.
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sulcus
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Quote: annswinfen, Saturday, 20 Feb 2010 18:34Temperance, you say: 'I'm not sure what having had three books published with Random House has to do with anything. Do they discuss discount structures with writers? None of my published friends know exactly what discounts are given on their books.' Yes, it is relevant, because it is clear from one's royalty statements what discounts have been given. I'm surprised and sad that you seem so hostile to my hope that bookshops might be given something like 30% instead of 10%. I've always thought that writers and independent bookshops should support each other, if possible. It appears that I am mistaken.
Ann, surely your ire/exasperation is better aimed at the still relatively fledgling self-publishing/ POD industry, who have little interest in facilitating wholesale orders to bookshops. The system is still trying to find its optimal business model, but maybe the packages on offer to writers is not yet at its ultimate, until it takes into consideration our wish to be stocked in bookshops. But since we pay for a printing and POD package, I can't see it happening anytime soon, as the process inclines towards typesetting, printing and digitising for printing, rather than distribution.
You want to support indie bookshops? Offer to do personal appearances, signings, readings. Then you can talk about discounts on the strength of demonstrability of actual sales performance. I've got a reading on Tuesday in a bookshop, which allows me to sell my own copies at full price, in return for me leaving 5 signed copies at no cost in order for the shop to sell. This strikes me as a fair, flexible trade. It's a marketing and promo cost, associated with the reading itself. I may not sell any on the night, but that can only mean my performance failed to inspire. If the bookshop sells their 5 signed copies at a later date, then they might come back to me for restocks, which won't be free.
Bookshops and writers both must just be creative in their approaches. And flexible in relationships with one another.
This post was last edited by sulcus, 21 Feb 2010, 14:04
"A,B&E", "Not In My Name" and "52FF" (flash fiction anthology) all available on Amazon Kindle
"How a psychopath makes sweet love. I can get you ringside. Royal box even."
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Turnip
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Hey Tempy, flattery is always effective! I'll turn up at your door someday, shaking the earth from a bunch of fresh roots. 
Back to my roots.
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JK
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Quote: annswinfen, Tuesday, 16 Feb 2010 15:52Quote: SylvieN, Tuesday, 16 Feb 2010 14:31Quote: filanddancer, Tuesday, 16 Feb 2010 12:47Well, I have had absolutely NO PROBLEM whatsoever in getting Waterstones to stock THE MIDWINTER CHILD for me. I did a signing before Christmas, my books arrived in under a week at the shop and they have restocked on the strength of the number of sales I managed already. They replaced the books I sold (that I had had to buy in the first place) which I then resold a second time with no problem at all, to an appropriate to my subject tourist attraction book shop marking up the price I'd paid to give me my cut, but giving them a cheaper than Gardner's price. It is absolutely true about Gardners - my £7.99 book is available to Waterstones for the amazing cut price of £7.19. Waterstones told me that they usually get at least 50% off the retail price, hence being able to offer cheaper books quite often. 3 for 2 etc. This has not stopped them putting my book on their hub or whatever it is called, and apparently every store in the UK should have a copy of my book. I have nothing but praise for them, and needed no persistence, personal emailing or anything to get them to do this. I try to persuade anyone who wants a copy to shop there, rather than on Amazon, as this will inspire Waterstones to keep restocking. The branch where I did the signing has about 30 copies of my book. And I have been offered further signings at other stores. Keep on trying. Filanddancer, THE MIDWINTER CHILD I'm delighted by your success with Waterstones, but puzzled as to why they told me within the last month that they did not order through Gardners. Is each branch doing its own thing? One of my local independents told me that it was often cheaper to go across the road and buy discounted books from Smiths/Waterstones, etc. who squeeze great discounts from publishers in order to be able to offer books at such low prices. Could this be why so many publishers have disappeared? It's very confusing. Sylvie N. As far as I can tell, if your book is not available through Waterstone's hub, it can be ordered by an individual manager through Gardner's. My local manager told me he got permission to do so. (Don't know what that entails.) And, yes, he has to pay them £7.19 for a book retailing at £7.99 - a margin which is ridiculous in the retail market - though I DON'T think a bookshop should make more out of a book than the author! My whole point in raising this topic in the first place is that Ted, as the YWO publisher, could sign up to the scheme to deal with Waterstone's shops and supply them directly. It's free and very simple, and a friend of mine who is a genuine self-publisher has done so. Those of us who have published through YWO are not really self-publishers. We do not control the printing and marketing processes, and would not be eligible to sign up to the Waterstone's scheme. This is why Ted needs to do so, and to supply Waterstone's shops at a more realistic wholesale price - though, one hopes, not at such huge discounts as 50 or 55%. I do wish we could get Ted to take some action on this, and to be more proactive in promoting YWO books to the media and the retail trade. It's a tough old world out there in publishing. Ann
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DO YOU WANT YOUR BOOK IN THE SHOPS?
20 Feb 2010, 13:40
