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morrisman
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Just an hour this morning trawling the internet, I could have spent over £4,000 (if I had it to spend) on 'agencies' and individuals offering to critique, edit, vanity publish, share trade secrets, take part in online tutorials on submitting proposals and various other schemes, many of which shamelessly exploit the desperate writer. We all know how it works. All of us, regardless of talent level work bloody hard to transmit our ideas onto the lap top/PC/pad and it is natural that all of us would like an audience. So here it is; 1) How do we know when money is worth spending? 2) Is spending money sometimes a method to try and buy security and peace of mind for our abilities? 3) How do we recognise if we just haven't got the goods to succeed at any level? 4) How do we handle that news, if it is given to us? Just wondering, I am angry with some of these sites, especially the ones that offer publishing tips and are written by people who have never been published. that is like going to my GP to fix my car or a mechanic for my roof repairs. What do you all think?
"Inevitably, It's the man with the gun who decides what the language of the day is going to be." - Tobias Wolff www.markporter.weebly.com
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perrybond
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First there are scams, very easy to spend lots of money on very little. (vanity publishing for instance) Next there are 'professionals'. People who pay their bills using their proffesional knowledge, usually these people are jaded, cynical and have an inflated idea of their own abilities. Lastly there are amateurs, people to whom it is a passion, this group only usually need payment in kind. I assume you are after judgement, whether your work is good enough to make the grade. There is no single grade, no bar to get over, no pass or fail. My personal feeling is not to pay any money, ever. But if you feel you must, don't look at what people have to offer, or tell you what you need. Take a step back and identify exactly what you want, then go looking for that service. I suggest that you are better off on this site sifting through the reviews, learning where your shortfalls lie, then either work on this area, or collaborate with others to work together to create a better finished piece.
This post was last edited by perrybond, 04 Jul 2010, 09:46
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morrisman
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That was sort of my approach. I am not going to pay anything out, it just saddens me that so many people will and obviously do (or there would not be a market). I am pretty sure I have a decent grasp of what I am doing (I have publisher interest for my novel) but even without that, being a solitary pastime, in the main, I can see how writers can be exploited. Also, I have found the reviews on this site to be extremely helpful, as you say. It just bothers me enormously that I think there will be a direct correlation between fragility of self confidence and the money that an individual is willing to pay out in order to be boosted, very human reaction that it is. I am angry at the individuals who are happy to capitalise on this.
"Inevitably, It's the man with the gun who decides what the language of the day is going to be." - Tobias Wolff www.markporter.weebly.com
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dancingsue
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Quote: morrisman, Sunday, 4 Jul 2010 10:50It just bothers me enormously that I think there will be a direct correlation between fragility of self confidence and the money that an individual is willing to pay out in order to be boosted, very human reaction that it is. I am angry at the individuals who are happy to capitalise on this. Unfortunately, the tricksters wouldn't be out there if there was no demand. Vanity publishing - what can you expect?
the long and the short of it
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sulcus
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Quote: morrisman, Sunday, 4 Jul 2010 08:37Just an hour this morning trawling the internet, I could have spent over £4,000 (if I had it to spend) on 'agencies' and individuals offering to critique, edit, vanity publish, share trade secrets, take part in online tutorials on submitting proposals and various other schemes, many of which shamelessly exploit the desperate writer. We all know how it works. All of us, regardless of talent level work bloody hard to transmit our ideas onto the lap top/PC/pad and it is natural that all of us would like an audience. So here it is; 1) How do we know when money is worth spending? Word of mouth based on others' experiences2) Is spending money sometimes a method to try and buy security and peace of mind for our abilities? Only if you do not treat this whole process as a professional, but as some sort of therapy-cum-fantasy. You have to adopt a professional approach or as much as you can in isolation from the profession as we are right now. You need a business plan. A marketing strategy. A set of targets (realistic meets pushing yourself). As part of this planning, paying for a certain service or not will answer itself - eg paying for an editor, or a cover designer, or yes a professional reading service. You will be able to answer these simply for yourself by how they fit in with your plan. 3) How do we recognise if we just haven't got the goods to succeed at any level? You have to define what success is for you first and foremost. Then you have to make it happen. If it doesn't at least you can tell yourself you gave it your best shot. Not to succeed on any level I think only the most delusional would still conclude they were in with a shot. With self-publishing, there is no-one else to shift the responsbility of not being successful to upon their shoulder. 4) How do we handle that news, if it is given to us? I kind of think this isn't quite the right question. Twice I had decided to give it all up as a bad job, but the writing would not leave me. It still woke me up in the middle of the night with an exchange between two characters. It still shaped what I saw when I gazed out of the bus window, still thinking whether the way that guy walked offered up a character trait to be used or not. It doesn't leave you, it's a gift,curse depending on the happiness quotient it brings in its wake. The true writers (not hobbyists) are writers 24-7. They always have their writing caps on, whether they are sat at the keyboard or not. Just wondering, I am angry with some of these sites, especially the ones that offer publishing tips and are written by people who have never been published. Why waste negative energy on them? It's a marketplace like any other. The sharks hoover up the weak in the social darwinism that is the market place. Pick your battles, ideally the ones that relate to you and your work. They will tax your patience enough I promise you.that is like going to my GP to fix my car or a mechanic for my roof repairs. What do you all think? We are all or at least should be, self-reliant. Having said that, although writers traditionally work in isolation (and you would know those processes from writing and rehearsing and then performing new material as a stand up), now it's a whole different ball-game. There is no isolation anymore. In order to market yourself and your book, you have to social network and give of yourself and reach out to potential readers. We've joined peer review groups like this one, ending isolation of feeling, craft and providing a useful platform for sharing practical knowledge, such as which of the services you refer to above ought to be avoided and which should be trusted. You may not make any money from these activities, but you will, if you put the effort in, find readers, make friends, establish fans and share with soul mates. There is simply no place left for the romantic vision of the lonely writer.
This post was last edited by sulcus, 04 Jul 2010, 14:44
"A,B&E", "Not In My Name" and "52FF" (flash fiction anthology) all available on Amazon Kindle"How a psychopath makes sweet love. I can get you ringside. Royal box even."
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morrisman
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As always, Marc - you talk an awful lot of sense.
"Inevitably, It's the man with the gun who decides what the language of the day is going to be." - Tobias Wolff www.markporter.weebly.com
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unclearthur
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Quote: morrisman, Sunday, 4 Jul 2010 19:06As always, Marc - you talk an awful lot of sense. Before I found YWO, I had a free critique from a US agency providing editing services. They were touting for business, and offered a 5 (or 10 - I can't really remember) page edit as a taster of their services, in the hope you would go back with the full manuscript. I have to say that although I found some parts of their critique useful, others I ignored - a bit like reviews from this site. And being pretty skint, there was no way I was going back for more. But the exercise did give me confidence that my writing wasn't that bad.
 www.cavalrytales.co.uk'The battle that never ends is the battle of belief against disbelief'
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taggie01
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Brilliant answers Sulcus, as usual. In respect of payment for critique, I use Cornerstones and have never once felt short-changed in any way. Bouquets all the way.
http://www.pruebatten.com/
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Costs, Scams, Frauds and Rip-Off's
04 Jul 2010, 08:37
